I was listening to the Sean Hannity this afternoon and he was asking people this question. "What accomplishment(s) has Barack Obama made?" One idiot replied, "He voted for children's healthcare." Hannity's response, "A senator voting during the senate session isn't an accomplishment, it's his job."
Looks like we have two idiots, one who likes HIlary because she's a woman and some dude who like Obama because he voted.
Yeah, but then you look at George W. Bush, a sitting president's accomplishments and think - "Hey, at least Obama's accomplished more than him."
Bush had headed a failing oil company, a failing baseball team, and then become governor of Texas. A position with no real power.
Obama grew up living overseas and in the United States, has a degree in political science. Has worked helping the poor in Chicago. Has a law degree from Harvard and has taught constitutional law for 11 years. He also has worked as a junior Senator.
While we can disagree on what qualifies one to be president, he isn't a 19 year old high school drop out. And he can string a literate sentence together.
And voting for Hillary for president "just" because she's a woman isn't stupid. It sends a very powerful signal to the rest of the world. It says that the United States of America doesn't just say that it is a place where any kid can grow up to be president. Most people would say that's true if you're white and male and rich. Hillary becoming President would be a strong sign that Americans really will elect anyone to be President.
I might quibble on whether I want her to be our first female President, but I can't deny that it would be a wonderful thing to have a female President. Or a black President. To prove that we are a nation where anyone can become president. Not just some geriatric old guy with plastic hair.
But I'm still voting for Obama. I haven't been inspired to vote in a long time. and I'm psyched about the Austin debate.
I know what it's like being a conservative this year. We had that with Kerry. It's nice not to have to hold your nose while you tap the touch screen.
And voting for Hillary for president "just" because she's a woman isn't stupid. It sends a very powerful signal to the rest of the world. I'm going to disagree with that.
I think voting for any female "just" because she's a woman is a terrible idea. I honestly don't care about the message we send to the rest of the world... I would never say that voting for a communist simply because she's a woman is a great message to be sending to anybody. Don't get me wrong, I have no problems with a woman being the president of our country... but I do have a problem with that woman being our president. (The thought literally frightens me.)
At the same time, I don't have any issues with a person of color being our president... but lets just say that there was a black man running who would do an absolutely piss-poor job at being president... would you still say that voting for him simply because he's black is a good message to be sending to the rest of the world? What if enough people decide to "send a good message" and the man ends up as president? Was the "good message" worth sending? I'd say "no."
I think it's much more important to vote for a candidate based on his/her goals as president rather than voting for them based on whether they're black/white or male/female.
I'd rather continue sending the same message rather than send a "good" message and end up with a president who has no business being in the White House.
Which is why I'm sure no one on this site would vote for a candidate just because he was a Christian.
I don't think that people who say they'd vote for Hillary "just because she's a woman" are saying that that's the only factor. They're essentially saying that's the thing that pushes them over the top.
Just like the number of people who voted for G.W. because was a Christian. They weren't really voting for him just because he was a Christian. Kerry and Gore are both Christians. That's just an overarching justification.
And I've talked to many, many Christians who voted for G.W. because they saw him as a beacon of Christianity to the world. It was all about how the rest of the world saw us. This is how people vote. It may be stupid, but it's how people vote.
Come on Tim, you can do better than that. 19 year old highschool drop out? Pres. Bush graduated from Phillips Academy and went on to graduate from Yale. Furthermore, he cut taxes and for 52 months straight we've had positive economic growth until the idiot lending companies decided to started approving under-qualified borrowers for crap ARM mortgages. Let's also not forget the lowest unemployment rate we've had in decades. The harsh reality is that there are two reasons people hate Bush and claim he's a terrible president: Iraq war and his embarrassing inability to speak publically. Now if you want to gripe about him, gripe about the joke he signed into law, "No child left behind act".
That being said, I'm fed up with both major parties. We're running toward socialism so fast it's scary. I just wish my man, Ron Paul, had a real chance this election.
I didn't mean that Bush was a high school dropout. I was saying that people call Obama "unqualified", but it's not as though he's a 19 year old high school drop out. And he is much more eloquent than the current president. Reread my post.
I don't think that cutting taxes to stimulate growth is a good idea when you have a massive amount of debt. So that's not exactly a plus. I don't think that starting a war that costs trillions of dollars and STILL not raising taxes is a bright idea. We would not applaud someone who was having trouble paying his credit card debt who was bragging about how he was leaving his old job for one with less pay. Why should we applaud the federal government for doing the same thing? Tax cuts can stimulate the economy, but supply-side is a cult. The value of the US dollar is showing where that cult is heading. Once other countries economies get strong enough, China and Japan will stop propping up our economy and the bottom will fall out.
And the mortgage crisis is exactly what happens when you throw too much easy money into the economy. It's simple cause and effect. The exact details might change, but the situation is still the same. Slow, strong economic growth doesn't happen through throwing tons of easy money into the economy. That leads to bubbles and destroying most of the equity that has been created. Sure Bush's rebate checks helped pick up the economy quickly after September 11th, but now almost all of that value has been wiped away, and the debt remains. It would have been much smarter to invest in new technologies and work programs, rather than sending a couple billion more dollars over to China.
As for hating Bush. You left off a few things. I also hate Bush for "No Child Left Behind", warrentless wiretapping, illegally erasing white house correspondence, his positions that he is above the rule of law, the piss poor supreme court justices he has appointed, his habit of appointing incompetents, his habit of appointing complete and utter failures during recess appointments because he knows that there's no way even his rubber stamp congress could have approved them, his run up of the federal debt, his complaining about the amount of spending going on without vetoing a single bill under the Republican congress, his pandering to evangelical Christians while attending church infrequently, his pro-life stance while being very pro-death penalty, his inability to consider that mistakes could be made, his allegance to Karl Rove and Dick Cheney, his war in Iraq, his war in Afghanistan, his desire for a war in Iran, his handling of Katrina, I could go on and on.
I think socialism sounds great. Just because most Americans have been brain washed by decades of anti-communist propaganda doesn't mean socialism doesn't have a lot to offer. Most of the socialist-leaning countries I've been to are wonderful places. Don't be afraid.
"I don't think that cutting taxes to stimulate growth is a good idea when you have a massive amount of debt...."
Huge debt occurs because the government won't slow down it's spending. Tax cuts are always good, but if decreased government spending doesn't follow, then the national debt increases. The government's too big and spends too much (of our money). One single president cannot, by himself, correct this problem. That problem can only be corrected at the local level up. The voters need to elect representatives that won't spend more money than the government takes in. The strength of the US dollars varies directly with the economy. The economy is weaker right now because of bad lending practices. As a result, the dollar value decreases. The savings and loan industry went through the same problem in the 80's, apparently they didn't learn their lesson.
"As for hating Bush. You left off a few things. I also hate Bush for "No Child Left Behind", warrentless wiretapping, illegally erasing white house correspondence...."
I praise President Bush and all involved for listening in on INTERNATIONAL phone call of SUSPECTED TERRORISTS in an attempt to keep you and I safe. Guess what. Not one of my phone calls or emails were "wired". Want to know how I know that? Because I'm not a suspected terrorist making international phone calls and/or email correspondence to other suspected terrorists. I don't like erasing official correspondence either, but if that's a prerequisite for hating a president, then lets hate all of them. Being anti-murdering of innocent children while being pro-execution of violent murders are two very different things. Don't equate them. The supreme court justices are only "piss poor" in your eyes b/c they're not liberals. He doesn't desire war in Iran, he's only said that if it comes to it for the safety of our troops, the safety of Iraq, and the safety of our Nation, then he wouldn't dismiss it. Finally, Katrina. I'm really tired of everyone blaming a complete failure of local and state officials on Pres. Bush. Louisiana has a governor and New Orleans a Mayor. Both did nothing to help their own citizens. You've seen the pictures circulating the net of the school yard full of buses under water. Why did they all need Pres. Bush to provide drivers to get those people out? Why couldn't the mayor do anything on his own? I could go on and on with your typical left-wing propaganda but what's the point?
Lastly, I haven't been brain-washed into thinking socialism and communism are bad, history has done a good job of proving that for me. I'll tell you what. You prove to me that you are in any way entitled to any of the money I earn twice a month and I'll concede that socialism has at least a small something to offer.
"Huge debt occurs because the government won't slow down it's spending. Tax cuts are always good, but if decreased government spending doesn't follow, then the national debt increases."
I'll agree that huge debt occurs because spending doesn't match tax cuts, and tax cuts are bad if they don't control spending. Which they're unable to do. So no tax cuts. I'd actually like to see bigger government to work on problems like our infrastructure that is failing.
"I praise President Bush and all involved for listening in on INTERNATIONAL phone call of SUSPECTED TERRORISTS in an attempt to keep you and I safe. Guess what. Not one of my phone calls or emails were "wired"."
You say that because Bush told you that, but the information that has come out doesn't back that up. There was a splice in the main AT&T backbone and several other large carriers. All phone calls were being listened to. They may not have done anything with what they heard on your call because they're currently listening for terrorists. But are you sure they'll never, ever want to listen to what you have to say? Perhaps they might decide that based upon statements you've made about not liking to pay taxes they decide to feed your conversations into a system ranking you higher for an IRS audit? Comfortable with that? You like Ron Paul? This is the number one libertarian issue.
"Being anti-murdering of innocent children while being pro-execution of violent murders are two very different things."
The Catholic church equates them, and I'm quite comfortable equating them. Just because your hypocrisy twinges your conciousness doesn't mean it should be mentioned. Not to mention the fact that murder from having state sponsored executions are on all our hands as citizens of the state. The choice to have an abortion is not our decision and thus is not. I'd saying being pro-death penalty is actually a much stronger commitment to a culture of death and carries a much higher burden upon the concious. And Bush is a particularly bloody example. There are many death penalty supporters who felt his cavalier attitude towards executions was unseemly. He would never question an execution. Even in cases where DNA evidence was showing that perhaps another appeal was due. That is unacceptable, and many pro-death penalty folks feel the same way.
"I'm really tired of everyone blaming a complete failure of local and state officials on Pres. Bush. Louisiana has a governor and New Orleans a Mayor."
Blah, blah, blah. Louisiana is a poor backwater. They're so incompetent that the Intestates have potholes though there. But we're Americans and we don't abandon the poor states. This is a typical libertarian view. I'm rich and can do for myself, so why should I do for others. Maybe there's not much more the federal government could have done. But Bush could have been there day one. His entire staff could have been there helping. That would have sent a powerful message that he cared.
"You prove to me that you are in any way entitled to any of the money I earn twice a month and I'll concede that socialism has at least a small something to offer."
First off, you're not paying me the money. I'm not entitled to the money. You're paying for the services you use now or might use.
1) You're paying for this war you support. Actually you're not. The tax cuts you supported means your children will pay for the war. I personally would not allocate a cent of my tax money to defense if I had the choice. But you would. And that's where a minimum of 1/2 of your tax money is going. So suck it up.
2) You're paying for the all the roads you need to get from your suburban house to work. Since your municipality declined to participate in public transport you're actually paying more, plus you pay higher prices once you get around your workplace because the city is subsidizing your suburban lifestyle by having to build huge highways to accommodate your car focused lifestyle.
3) You're paying to subsidize TV, Cable, and Phone infrastructure. I'm assuming you're using at least one of those.
4) You're paying your fair share of fire and police services.
5) You're paying to feed the hungry, so you don't have beggars lining your beautifully pristine suburban streets, and don't need to pay several times as much on fences, gates, and more police.
6) You're paying to help feed and care for the old, physically, and mentally disabled, so you don't have to live with them and have them be a burden upon you.
7) You're paying to have your children educated for free. At a price that the private sector cannot even hope to compete with and generally with better quality education.
8) You're paying for state of the art science facilities that are helping to defeat many diseases, help protect your food supply, and help protect you from large scale outbreaks of disease.
9) You're paying to subsidize gentleman farmers like my father-in-law. I don't know what that's about. I agree there's some waste there.
The rest of the stuff that people are usually up-in-arms about costs next to nothing. You're probably paying less than $1 a year for it. Politicians love talking about cutting it and all that waste, but to make a real dent you have to:
1) go into debt 2) cut the military budget 3) cut the social security budget
So you want granny living with you? Or you want to cut the military. Everything else is less than 15% of your tax bill.
The last half of your post did nothing to prove to me that you or anyone else is entitled to the money I work my ass of for. Care to try again?
Tax cuts don't control spending. A government that's willing to stop useless spending controls spending. Example, Austin, in yet another stroke of "brilliance" just pissed away $30M of our money to buy property (3000 acres) in Hays county just to put environmental restrictions on it so it can't be used. God I'm glad we elected them. That's a fantastic way to use the money I work hard for.
You assume all calls were being monitored because Bush said they weren't (we can both play that game). I want hard evidence that one of my phone calls were listened to by a federal agent and I'll concede this point immediately.
Concerning abortion and capitol punishment, I don't really care what the Catholic church says about them, I'm not Catholic. The life of a child who's never even been allowed to take a breath is very different from that of Ted Bundy or Charles Manson. You can pretend they're not, that's fine. I personally believe there's a difference between innocence and guilt. Hitler <> my 16 month old daughter.
Lastly, that Katrina crap is just that, crap. We do not abandon the poor states. That's why every state surrounding Louisiana offered aid. It's easy to ignore that while blaming Pres. Bush for not personally flying to ground zero to take charge. That was the mayor's job like it or not.
"The last half of your post did nothing to prove to me that you or anyone else is entitled to the money I work my ass of[f] for."
I can recommend a civics class, but I don't really know how to explain how taxes work any better than this. Are you saying you don't want any of those amenities? Running water? Roads? A military? I somehow doubt you can afford any of those things on your own.
"Example, Austin, in yet another stroke of "brilliance" just pissed away $30M of our money to buy property (3000 acres) in Hays county just to put environmental restrictions on it so it can't be used."
This was voted for in a bond package that was put before voters. The majority of your citizens voted directly for it. This wasn't elected officials doing some rouge action. It was a majority of the voters in this county directly voting to purchase that piece of land. In fact I believe it was well over a majority, somewhere in the 70+%. It was a very popular measure. And if you don't like paying for green spaces. DON'T LIVE IN AUSTIN. There are many, many cities that don't treasure green spaces.
"I believe there is no difference in the life of Hitler and your 16 month old baby in the eyes of God."
If there was I wouldn't really have much interest in God. God does not judge based on works. And I'm definitely not having an abortion debate with someone who won't discern the difference between a 16 month old child and a 16 week old foetus. I was just saying in my first post that I found Bush's bloody disinterest in achieving justice in death penalty cases disgusting.
"You assume all calls were being monitored because Bush said they weren't (we can both play that game). I want hard evidence that one of my phone calls were listened to by a federal agent and I'll concede this point immediately."
There's never going to be enough evidence for you, but I'll post some background just in case you would like to get informed: http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/05/70914 http://www.wired.com/politics/security/news/2007/08/wiretap And just to point out the obvious. You may be comfortable with Bush having this ability, but are you comfortable with Hillary Clinton? Do you not concede that perhaps this is very dangerous to a free society and can be abused very easily, especially since there is NO oversight.
"Lastly, that Katrina crap is just that, crap." I can't keep arguing this. Obviously you don't want a federal government, and think all disaster relief should come through private donations. That's fine. I hope you never get hit by a natural disaster. I happen to think the President, as leader of the figure head of the nation should be out there, helping people. As neighbouring states donated time and money to help, the President should have been there as a symbol of that. That's all I'm saying.
"I can recommend a civics class, but I don't really know how to explain how taxes work any better than this."
No no, I never said I'm opposed to paying taxes. I'm opposed to a heavily progressive tax system that punishes success by giving their money to poorer citizens via welfare checks and Medicaid. I have no problem paying taxes for things like road improvements, police, etc.
"This was voted for in a bond package that was put before voters. The majority of your citizens voted directly for it."
You sure? What percentage of registered voters actually voted. I'm certainly not making excuses for laziness, and if only 15% of registered voters turned out to vote (which is probably quite likely), then I guess I don't really have a leg to stand on. But just because a majority of the voters who turned out are okay with wasteful spending doesn't make that wasteful spending any less wasteful. And as far as not living in Austin, I currently don't have a choice. But believe, I'm working on making not living here a reality, it's just gonna take a few more years.
"And I'm definitely not having an abortion debate with someone who won't discern the difference between a 16 month old child and a 16 week old foetus."
You're correct, I will not discern a difference. If you want to dehumanize what grows in the womb of a woman, go ahead. But when it's born, it won't be a dog or a monkey or a cow, but a little baby human. It's human at conception, it's human at birth and it's human when it dies regardless of who wants to pretend otherwise. Furthermore, I've listened to the heartbeats of my children at 8 weeks. When you have children one day, I'll hope and pray that when you hear that 8 week old heart beat, you won't think, "What a wonderful trick that a lump of subhuman tissue can make such a wonderful noise. I can't wait until it morphs into a human at birth."
"There's never going to be enough evidence for you, but I'll post some background just in case you would like to get informed:"
Of course there is. It's quite simple. You said the "main backbone" of AT&T and others (they were MCI and Verizon). I want to see a list of numbers whose conversations were listened to and I want to see my phone number on that list. That very small bit of evidence is more than enough for me and as I said previously, if that proof is presented, then I'll immediately concede you the point. And no, I don't Hilary, Barack, Pres. Bush, or my own mother listening in on my phone calls unwarranted. If, however, I give them a reason (like calling a terrorist organization over seas), then now they have probable cause to listen in.
"Obviously you don't want a federal government, and think all disaster relief should come through private donations. That's fine."
Close, I want a very, very small Federal government. In the beginning, the only two major purposes (not only, but major) of the Federal government was to regulate interstate commerce and fund a military. I want the Federal government that our forefathers created 200 years ago. And I don't disagree that Pres. Bush should have had some presence in Louisiana. He did have that. I'm arguing that every time a disaster happens, it shouldn't be big brother in the white house we turn to first and foremost for help. It should be the folks sitting next door to us and the local officials that run the city and state.
Luke, you've fixed the load time too well. Now instead of going back in time, it's now taking approximately 8.3 days for the page to generate. :)
Tim, it's pleasant "arguing" with you. I debate with lots of people who are just plain jerks, and you're not one of them. So keep it going as long as you want, I'm just glad you're pleasant to converse with. :)
This blog lacks Ron Paul and, therefore, I can not endlessly and annoyingly Digg it. :D
Posted by Daniel on 2008.02.11 at 5:55 a.m.
I was listening to the Sean Hannity this afternoon and he was asking people this question. "What accomplishment(s) has Barack Obama made?" One idiot replied, "He voted for children's healthcare." Hannity's response, "A senator voting during the senate session isn't an accomplishment, it's his job."
Looks like we have two idiots, one who likes HIlary because she's a woman and some dude who like Obama because he voted.
Posted by Chris Harbison on 2008.02.12 at 4:19 p.m.
So was Jezebel.
Posted by loyalfriend on 2008.02.12 at 4:47 p.m.
Yeah, but then you look at George W. Bush, a sitting president's accomplishments and think - "Hey, at least Obama's accomplished more than him."
Bush had headed a failing oil company, a failing baseball team, and then become governor of Texas. A position with no real power.
Obama grew up living overseas and in the United States, has a degree in political science. Has worked helping the poor in Chicago. Has a law degree from Harvard and has taught constitutional law for 11 years. He also has worked as a junior Senator.
While we can disagree on what qualifies one to be president, he isn't a 19 year old high school drop out. And he can string a literate sentence together.
And voting for Hillary for president "just" because she's a woman isn't stupid. It sends a very powerful signal to the rest of the world. It says that the United States of America doesn't just say that it is a place where any kid can grow up to be president. Most people would say that's true if you're white and male and rich. Hillary becoming President would be a strong sign that Americans really will elect anyone to be President.
I might quibble on whether I want her to be our first female President, but I can't deny that it would be a wonderful thing to have a female President. Or a black President. To prove that we are a nation where anyone can become president. Not just some geriatric old guy with plastic hair.
But I'm still voting for Obama. I haven't been inspired to vote in a long time. and I'm psyched about the Austin debate.
I know what it's like being a conservative this year. We had that with Kerry. It's nice not to have to hold your nose while you tap the touch screen.
Posted by Tim on 2008.02.13 at 4:00 a.m.
I'm going to disagree with that.
I think voting for any female "just" because she's a woman is a terrible idea. I honestly don't care about the message we send to the rest of the world...
I would never say that voting for a communist simply because she's a woman is a great message to be sending to anybody. Don't get me wrong, I have no problems with a woman being the president of our country... but I do have a problem with that woman being our president. (The thought literally frightens me.)
At the same time, I don't have any issues with a person of color being our president... but lets just say that there was a black man running who would do an absolutely piss-poor job at being president... would you still say that voting for him simply because he's black is a good message to be sending to the rest of the world? What if enough people decide to "send a good message" and the man ends up as president? Was the "good message" worth sending? I'd say "no."
I think it's much more important to vote for a candidate based on his/her goals as president rather than voting for them based on whether they're black/white or male/female.
I'd rather continue sending the same message rather than send a "good" message and end up with a president who has no business being in the White House.
Posted by Nathan on 2008.02.13 at 4:19 p.m.
Which is why I'm sure no one on this site would vote for a candidate just because he was a Christian.
I don't think that people who say they'd vote for Hillary "just because she's a woman" are saying that that's the only factor. They're essentially saying that's the thing that pushes them over the top.
Just like the number of people who voted for G.W. because was a Christian. They weren't really voting for him just because he was a Christian. Kerry and Gore are both Christians. That's just an overarching justification.
And I've talked to many, many Christians who voted for G.W. because they saw him as a beacon of Christianity to the world. It was all about how the rest of the world saw us. This is how people vote. It may be stupid, but it's how people vote.
Posted by Tim on 2008.02.14 at 4:18 a.m.
Come on Tim, you can do better than that. 19 year old highschool drop out? Pres. Bush graduated from Phillips Academy and went on to graduate from Yale. Furthermore, he cut taxes and for 52 months straight we've had positive economic growth until the idiot lending companies decided to started approving under-qualified borrowers for crap ARM mortgages. Let's also not forget the lowest unemployment rate we've had in decades. The harsh reality is that there are two reasons people hate Bush and claim he's a terrible president: Iraq war and his embarrassing inability to speak publically. Now if you want to gripe about him, gripe about the joke he signed into law, "No child left behind act".
That being said, I'm fed up with both major parties. We're running toward socialism so fast it's scary. I just wish my man, Ron Paul, had a real chance this election.
Posted by Chris on 2008.02.14 at 5:05 p.m.
I didn't mean that Bush was a high school dropout. I was saying that people call Obama "unqualified", but it's not as though he's a 19 year old high school drop out. And he is much more eloquent than the current president. Reread my post.
I don't think that cutting taxes to stimulate growth is a good idea when you have a massive amount of debt. So that's not exactly a plus. I don't think that starting a war that costs trillions of dollars and STILL not raising taxes is a bright idea. We would not applaud someone who was having trouble paying his credit card debt who was bragging about how he was leaving his old job for one with less pay. Why should we applaud the federal government for doing the same thing? Tax cuts can stimulate the economy, but supply-side is a cult. The value of the US dollar is showing where that cult is heading. Once other countries economies get strong enough, China and Japan will stop propping up our economy and the bottom will fall out.
And the mortgage crisis is exactly what happens when you throw too much easy money into the economy. It's simple cause and effect. The exact details might change, but the situation is still the same. Slow, strong economic growth doesn't happen through throwing tons of easy money into the economy. That leads to bubbles and destroying most of the equity that has been created. Sure Bush's rebate checks helped pick up the economy quickly after September 11th, but now almost all of that value has been wiped away, and the debt remains. It would have been much smarter to invest in new technologies and work programs, rather than sending a couple billion more dollars over to China.
As for hating Bush. You left off a few things. I also hate Bush for "No Child Left Behind", warrentless wiretapping, illegally erasing white house correspondence, his positions that he is above the rule of law, the piss poor supreme court justices he has appointed, his habit of appointing incompetents, his habit of appointing complete and utter failures during recess appointments because he knows that there's no way even his rubber stamp congress could have approved them, his run up of the federal debt, his complaining about the amount of spending going on without vetoing a single bill under the Republican congress, his pandering to evangelical Christians while attending church infrequently, his pro-life stance while being very pro-death penalty, his inability to consider that mistakes could be made, his allegance to Karl Rove and Dick Cheney, his war in Iraq, his war in Afghanistan, his desire for a war in Iran, his handling of Katrina, I could go on and on.
I think socialism sounds great. Just because most Americans have been brain washed by decades of anti-communist propaganda doesn't mean socialism doesn't have a lot to offer. Most of the socialist-leaning countries I've been to are wonderful places. Don't be afraid.
Posted by Tim on 2008.02.15 at 4:38 a.m.
"I don't think that cutting taxes to stimulate growth is a good idea when you have a massive amount of debt...."
Huge debt occurs because the government won't slow down it's spending. Tax cuts are always good, but if decreased government spending doesn't follow, then the national debt increases. The government's too big and spends too much (of our money). One single president cannot, by himself, correct this problem. That problem can only be corrected at the local level up. The voters need to elect representatives that won't spend more money than the government takes in. The strength of the US dollars varies directly with the economy. The economy is weaker right now because of bad lending practices. As a result, the dollar value decreases. The savings and loan industry went through the same problem in the 80's, apparently they didn't learn their lesson.
"As for hating Bush. You left off a few things. I also hate Bush for "No Child Left Behind", warrentless wiretapping, illegally erasing white house correspondence...."
I praise President Bush and all involved for listening in on INTERNATIONAL phone call of SUSPECTED TERRORISTS in an attempt to keep you and I safe. Guess what. Not one of my phone calls or emails were "wired". Want to know how I know that? Because I'm not a suspected terrorist making international phone calls and/or email correspondence to other suspected terrorists. I don't like erasing official correspondence either, but if that's a prerequisite for hating a president, then lets hate all of them. Being anti-murdering of innocent children while being pro-execution of violent murders are two very different things. Don't equate them. The supreme court justices are only "piss poor" in your eyes b/c they're not liberals. He doesn't desire war in Iran, he's only said that if it comes to it for the safety of our troops, the safety of Iraq, and the safety of our Nation, then he wouldn't dismiss it. Finally, Katrina. I'm really tired of everyone blaming a complete failure of local and state officials on Pres. Bush. Louisiana has a governor and New Orleans a Mayor. Both did nothing to help their own citizens. You've seen the pictures circulating the net of the school yard full of buses under water. Why did they all need Pres. Bush to provide drivers to get those people out? Why couldn't the mayor do anything on his own? I could go on and on with your typical left-wing propaganda but what's the point?
Lastly, I haven't been brain-washed into thinking socialism and communism are bad, history has done a good job of proving that for me. I'll tell you what. You prove to me that you are in any way entitled to any of the money I earn twice a month and I'll concede that socialism has at least a small something to offer.
Posted by Chris Harbison on 2008.02.16 at 7:32 a.m.
"Huge debt occurs because the government won't slow down it's spending. Tax cuts are always good, but if decreased government spending doesn't follow, then the national debt increases."
I'll agree that huge debt occurs because spending doesn't match tax cuts, and tax cuts are bad if they don't control spending. Which they're unable to do. So no tax cuts. I'd actually like to see bigger government to work on problems like our infrastructure that is failing.
"I praise President Bush and all involved for listening in on INTERNATIONAL phone call of SUSPECTED TERRORISTS in an attempt to keep you and I safe. Guess what. Not one of my phone calls or emails were "wired"."
You say that because Bush told you that, but the information that has come out doesn't back that up. There was a splice in the main AT&T backbone and several other large carriers. All phone calls were being listened to. They may not have done anything with what they heard on your call because they're currently listening for terrorists. But are you sure they'll never, ever want to listen to what you have to say? Perhaps they might decide that based upon statements you've made about not liking to pay taxes they decide to feed your conversations into a system ranking you higher for an IRS audit? Comfortable with that? You like Ron Paul? This is the number one libertarian issue.
"Being anti-murdering of innocent children while being pro-execution of violent murders are two very different things."
The Catholic church equates them, and I'm quite comfortable equating them. Just because your hypocrisy twinges your conciousness doesn't mean it should be mentioned. Not to mention the fact that murder from having state sponsored executions are on all our hands as citizens of the state. The choice to have an abortion is not our decision and thus is not. I'd saying being pro-death penalty is actually a much stronger commitment to a culture of death and carries a much higher burden upon the concious. And Bush is a particularly bloody example. There are many death penalty supporters who felt his cavalier attitude towards executions was unseemly. He would never question an execution. Even in cases where DNA evidence was showing that perhaps another appeal was due. That is unacceptable, and many pro-death penalty folks feel the same way.
"I'm really tired of everyone blaming a complete failure of local and state officials on Pres. Bush. Louisiana has a governor and New Orleans a Mayor."
Blah, blah, blah. Louisiana is a poor backwater. They're so incompetent that the Intestates have potholes though there. But we're Americans and we don't abandon the poor states. This is a typical libertarian view. I'm rich and can do for myself, so why should I do for others. Maybe there's not much more the federal government could have done. But Bush could have been there day one. His entire staff could have been there helping. That would have sent a powerful message that he cared.
"You prove to me that you are in any way entitled to any of the money I earn twice a month and I'll concede that socialism has at least a small something to offer."
First off, you're not paying me the money. I'm not entitled to the money. You're paying for the services you use now or might use.
1) You're paying for this war you support. Actually you're not. The tax cuts you supported means your children will pay for the war. I personally would not allocate a cent of my tax money to defense if I had the choice. But you would. And that's where a minimum of 1/2 of your tax money is going. So suck it up.
2) You're paying for the all the roads you need to get from your suburban house to work. Since your municipality declined to participate in public transport you're actually paying more, plus you pay higher prices once you get around your workplace because the city is subsidizing your suburban lifestyle by having to build huge highways to accommodate your car focused lifestyle.
3) You're paying to subsidize TV, Cable, and Phone infrastructure. I'm assuming you're using at least one of those.
4) You're paying your fair share of fire and police services.
5) You're paying to feed the hungry, so you don't have beggars lining your beautifully pristine suburban streets, and don't need to pay several times as much on fences, gates, and more police.
6) You're paying to help feed and care for the old, physically, and mentally disabled, so you don't have to live with them and have them be a burden upon you.
7) You're paying to have your children educated for free. At a price that the private sector cannot even hope to compete with and generally with better quality education.
8) You're paying for state of the art science facilities that are helping to defeat many diseases, help protect your food supply, and help protect you from large scale outbreaks of disease.
9) You're paying to subsidize gentleman farmers like my father-in-law. I don't know what that's about. I agree there's some waste there.
The rest of the stuff that people are usually up-in-arms about costs next to nothing. You're probably paying less than $1 a year for it. Politicians love talking about cutting it and all that waste, but to make a real dent you have to:
1) go into debt
2) cut the military budget
3) cut the social security budget
So you want granny living with you? Or you want to cut the military. Everything else is less than 15% of your tax bill.
Posted by 70.113.70.151 on 2008.02.16 at 9:26 a.m.
The last half of your post did nothing to prove to me that you or anyone else is entitled to the money I work my ass of for. Care to try again?
Tax cuts don't control spending. A government that's willing to stop useless spending controls spending. Example, Austin, in yet another stroke of "brilliance" just pissed away $30M of our money to buy property (3000 acres) in Hays county just to put environmental restrictions on it so it can't be used. God I'm glad we elected them. That's a fantastic way to use the money I work hard for.
You assume all calls were being monitored because Bush said they weren't (we can both play that game). I want hard evidence that one of my phone calls were listened to by a federal agent and I'll concede this point immediately.
Concerning abortion and capitol punishment, I don't really care what the Catholic church says about them, I'm not Catholic. The life of a child who's never even been allowed to take a breath is very different from that of Ted Bundy or Charles Manson. You can pretend they're not, that's fine. I personally believe there's a difference between innocence and guilt. Hitler <> my 16 month old daughter.
Lastly, that Katrina crap is just that, crap. We do not abandon the poor states. That's why every state surrounding Louisiana offered aid. It's easy to ignore that while blaming Pres. Bush for not personally flying to ground zero to take charge. That was the mayor's job like it or not.
Posted by Chris Harbison on 2008.02.16 at 12:31 p.m.
"The last half of your post did nothing to prove to me that you or anyone else is entitled to the money I work my ass of[f] for."
I can recommend a civics class, but I don't really know how to explain how taxes work any better than this. Are you saying you don't want any of those amenities? Running water? Roads? A military? I somehow doubt you can afford any of those things on your own.
"Example, Austin, in yet another stroke of "brilliance" just pissed away $30M of our money to buy property (3000 acres) in Hays county just to put environmental restrictions on it so it can't be used."
This was voted for in a bond package that was put before voters. The majority of your citizens voted directly for it. This wasn't elected officials doing some rouge action. It was a majority of the voters in this county directly voting to purchase that piece of land. In fact I believe it was well over a majority, somewhere in the 70+%. It was a very popular measure. And if you don't like paying for green spaces. DON'T LIVE IN AUSTIN. There are many, many cities that don't treasure green spaces.
"I believe there is no difference in the life of Hitler and your 16 month old baby in the eyes of God."
If there was I wouldn't really have much interest in God. God does not judge based on works. And I'm definitely not having an abortion debate with someone who won't discern the difference between a 16 month old child and a 16 week old foetus. I was just saying in my first post that I found Bush's bloody disinterest in achieving justice in death penalty cases disgusting.
"You assume all calls were being monitored because Bush said they weren't (we can both play that game). I want hard evidence that one of my phone calls were listened to by a federal agent and I'll concede this point immediately."
There's never going to be enough evidence for you, but I'll post some background just in case you would like to get informed:
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/05/70914
http://www.wired.com/politics/security/news/2007/08/wiretap
And just to point out the obvious. You may be comfortable with Bush having this ability, but are you comfortable with Hillary Clinton? Do you not concede that perhaps this is very dangerous to a free society and can be abused very easily, especially since there is NO oversight.
"Lastly, that Katrina crap is just that, crap."
I can't keep arguing this. Obviously you don't want a federal government, and think all disaster relief should come through private donations. That's fine. I hope you never get hit by a natural disaster. I happen to think the President, as leader of the figure head of the nation should be out there, helping people. As neighbouring states donated time and money to help, the President should have been there as a symbol of that. That's all I'm saying.
Posted by Tim on 2008.02.16 at 3:06 p.m.
"I can recommend a civics class, but I don't really know how to explain how taxes work any better than this."
No no, I never said I'm opposed to paying taxes. I'm opposed to a heavily progressive tax system that punishes success by giving their money to poorer citizens via welfare checks and Medicaid. I have no problem paying taxes for things like road improvements, police, etc.
"This was voted for in a bond package that was put before voters. The majority of your citizens voted directly for it."
You sure? What percentage of registered voters actually voted. I'm certainly not making excuses for laziness, and if only 15% of registered voters turned out to vote (which is probably quite likely), then I guess I don't really have a leg to stand on. But just because a majority of the voters who turned out are okay with wasteful spending doesn't make that wasteful spending any less wasteful. And as far as not living in Austin, I currently don't have a choice. But believe, I'm working on making not living here a reality, it's just gonna take a few more years.
"And I'm definitely not having an abortion debate with someone who won't discern the difference between a 16 month old child and a 16 week old foetus."
You're correct, I will not discern a difference. If you want to dehumanize what grows in the womb of a woman, go ahead. But when it's born, it won't be a dog or a monkey or a cow, but a little baby human. It's human at conception, it's human at birth and it's human when it dies regardless of who wants to pretend otherwise. Furthermore, I've listened to the heartbeats of my children at 8 weeks. When you have children one day, I'll hope and pray that when you hear that 8 week old heart beat, you won't think, "What a wonderful trick that a lump of subhuman tissue can make such a wonderful noise. I can't wait until it morphs into a human at birth."
"There's never going to be enough evidence for you, but I'll post some background just in case you would like to get informed:"
Of course there is. It's quite simple. You said the "main backbone" of AT&T and others (they were MCI and Verizon). I want to see a list of numbers whose conversations were listened to and I want to see my phone number on that list. That very small bit of evidence is more than enough for me and as I said previously, if that proof is presented, then I'll immediately concede you the point. And no, I don't Hilary, Barack, Pres. Bush, or my own mother listening in on my phone calls unwarranted. If, however, I give them a reason (like calling a terrorist organization over seas), then now they have probable cause to listen in.
"Obviously you don't want a federal government, and think all disaster relief should come through private donations. That's fine."
Close, I want a very, very small Federal government. In the beginning, the only two major purposes (not only, but major) of the Federal government was to regulate interstate commerce and fund a military. I want the Federal government that our forefathers created 200 years ago. And I don't disagree that Pres. Bush should have had some presence in Louisiana. He did have that. I'm arguing that every time a disaster happens, it shouldn't be big brother in the white house we turn to first and foremost for help. It should be the folks sitting next door to us and the local officials that run the city and state.
Posted by Chris Harbison on 2008.02.17 at 4:26 p.m.
Oh, and on a complete different note, two things.
Luke, you've fixed the load time too well. Now instead of going back in time, it's now taking approximately 8.3 days for the page to generate. :)
Tim, it's pleasant "arguing" with you. I debate with lots of people who are just plain jerks, and you're not one of them. So keep it going as long as you want, I'm just glad you're pleasant to converse with. :)
Posted by Chris Harbison on 2008.02.17 at 4:28 p.m.
Great Converse guys! Next time, I wanna see it done Chuck Taylor style.
Posted by mcoker on 2008.02.23 at 6:02 a.m.
Chris, I agree with you totally, and applaud you for your skill at articulating your views.
Posted by loyalfriend on 2008.03.02 at 10:22 a.m.
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